Comments on: 123 Trilogy: Part 3 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/ ...reason and emotion, shaken and stirred... Wed, 21 Jul 2010 05:40:47 +0530 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: mahendrap http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-903 mahendrap Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:31:34 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-903 Paul: that is what many 'experts' are saying here too, but there's no real consensus on the matter. Thanks for the insight that it is actually the US Supreme Court that decides this. One of our educated and apparently knowledgeable Congress politician is saying the same thing, and it is his article that I've linked to. Thanks again for your opinion! Paul: that is what many ‘experts’ are saying here too, but there’s no real consensus on the matter. Thanks for the insight that it is actually the US Supreme Court that decides this. One of our educated and apparently knowledgeable Congress politician is saying the same thing, and it is his article that I’ve linked to. Thanks again for your opinion!

]]> By: Paul Sunstone http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-906 Paul Sunstone Sat, 01 Sep 2007 11:26:19 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-906 //In cases of conflict, there are disputes over whether the 1954 US Atomic Energy Act and the Hyde Act will supersede the 123 Agreement or the other way around. There is no unanimous clear answer.// I'm not an authority on the law, so I might be wrong about this, Mahendra, but my strong recollection is that in the U.S., the Supreme Court typically rules that treaties supersede domestic laws. //In cases of conflict, there are disputes over whether the 1954 US Atomic Energy Act and the Hyde Act will supersede the 123 Agreement or the other way around. There is no unanimous clear answer.//

I’m not an authority on the law, so I might be wrong about this, Mahendra, but my strong recollection is that in the U.S., the Supreme Court typically rules that treaties supersede domestic laws.

]]> By: mahendrap http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-910 mahendrap Fri, 31 Aug 2007 05:49:44 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-910 Arun: Yes and yes to your first two questions - as I've already stated in my post. And yes, the main opposition is from the Left because they're part of the government and can bring it down. The BJP is currently flip-flopping, but in my opinion they will not oppose operationalizing the agreement because large chunks of their constituencies support a closer partnership with the US. Aybuk: politicians already are aware of SMS polls, media opinion (print and tv), and the voice of the public. Telling them (by whatever means) what each person thinks is not going to make a difference to them! I admire your enthusiasm but you need to look at ground reality. Oemar: //Left has already lost its soveriegnity to China, what is it complaining about now?// Ha ha ha!!! :-) I wish I could've come up with that line for my post! Powerkis: As I commented on your blog, I'm deeply honored and am grateful. Thanks! Arun: Yes and yes to your first two questions — as I’ve already stated in my post. And yes, the main opposition is from the Left because they’re part of the government and can bring it down. The BJP is currently flip-flopping, but in my opinion they will not oppose operationalizing the agreement because large chunks of their constituencies support a closer partnership with the US.

Aybuk: politicians already are aware of SMS polls, media opinion (print and tv), and the voice of the public. Telling them (by whatever means) what each person thinks is not going to make a difference to them! I admire your enthusiasm but you need to look at ground reality.

Oemar: //Left has already lost its soveriegnity to China, what is it complaining about now?// Ha ha ha!!! :-)
I wish I could’ve come up with that line for my post!

Powerkis: As I commented on your blog, I’m deeply honored and am grateful. Thanks!

]]> By: powerkis http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-902 powerkis Fri, 31 Aug 2007 02:33:34 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-902 Come on by....I have something for you: http://mondaymorningpower.blogspot.com/2007/08/blogging-star-award.html Come on by.…I have something for you: http://mondaymorningpower.blogspot.com/2007/08/blogging-star-award.html

]]> By: oemar http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-901 oemar Fri, 31 Aug 2007 01:17:32 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-901 Very true about the liability protection law. In fact I was planning to write a post on that, but this post explains more about the whole scenario. Even the govt has clarified that the after the operationalisation of this deal, the first delegation will go to Russia and then to other countries. We will make new friends and retain old ones as well. As far as losing our soveriegnity is concerned, its not true. We have the right to conduct nuke tests if deemed necessary and they have the right to withdraw supply. Makes sense. By the way the Left has already lost its soveriegnity to China, what is it complaining about now? Very true about the liability protection law. In fact I was planning to write a post on that, but this post explains more about the whole scenario. Even the govt has clarified that the after the operationalisation of this deal, the first delegation will go to Russia and then to other countries. We will make new friends and retain old ones as well. As far as losing our soveriegnity is concerned, its not true. We have the right to conduct nuke tests if deemed necessary and they have the right to withdraw supply. Makes sense. By the way the Left has already lost its soveriegnity to China, what is it complaining about now?

]]> By: Aybuk Hiawog http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-907 Aybuk Hiawog Thu, 30 Aug 2007 17:11:08 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-907 I am not saying it will be easy. But does waiting for the people to improve may never work. All of us wants India to have wide roadways and clear lakes as in US or some other foreign country. But the truth is that we would always be stuck with narrow roads and traffic blocks. The problem is that we don't have as much land area per person to splurge. In the same way, there are certain things Indian, that will always remain. There will be poverty and there will always be drunkards. We may reduce the amount of bribe, but still it will be there. Honest politicians will be a dream. We have around 100 million mobile phone users, and if at least half of them are able to voice their opinion then that would be a start. I mentioned participatory government, but that is a dream, I was talking about people voicing their opinion through the latest communication systems available so that the elected representatives know what people want and then vote based on that. Waiting for politicians to take the nation forward, while I do my job and sit back, is not something I am willing to do. I believe each and every person are responsible for the future of the nation. Instead of just electing a person and asking him to do the best he can, isn't it better if we keep telling him if he is going to make a mistake? Btw, the comment system is working. I moderate the comment due to spam. I am not saying it will be easy. But does waiting for the people to improve may never work. All of us wants India to have wide roadways and clear lakes as in US or some other foreign country. But the truth is that we would always be stuck with narrow roads and traffic blocks. The problem is that we don’t have as much land area per person to splurge. In the same way, there are certain things Indian, that will always remain. There will be poverty and there will always be drunkards. We may reduce the amount of bribe, but still it will be there. Honest politicians will be a dream. We have around 100 million mobile phone users, and if at least half of them are able to voice their opinion then that would be a start. I mentioned participatory government, but that is a dream, I was talking about people voicing their opinion through the latest communication systems available so that the elected representatives know what people want and then vote based on that.
Waiting for politicians to take the nation forward, while I do my job and sit back, is not something I am willing to do. I believe each and every person are responsible for the future of the nation. Instead of just electing a person and asking him to do the best he can, isn’t it better if we keep telling him if he is going to make a mistake?

Btw, the comment system is working. I moderate the comment due to spam.

]]> By: Arunk http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-905 Arunk Thu, 30 Aug 2007 16:58:10 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-905 Being 10000 miles away, and 20 years removed, I cannot relate to all this that much, but isnt it more a "ideological stance" - i.e. any alignment with US is bad, bad and bad? So any amount of logical explanations would fall on deaf ears? Is the main opposition only from the Left or are there others with different perspectives? Being 10000 miles away, and 20 years removed, I cannot relate to all this that much, but isnt it more a “ideological stance” — i.e. any alignment with US is bad, bad and bad? So any amount of logical explanations would fall on deaf ears? Is the main opposition only from the Left or are there others with different perspectives?

]]> By: mahendrap http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-908 mahendrap Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:59:24 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-908 Aybuk: thanks for visiting! I was unable to comment on your post in detail on your blog, as it says that comments are disabled by a blog administrator. There are many things you say that I agree with, but also several that I disagree with. Your idea is a noble one. It may be termed as a 'real-time democracy'. But I think we're technologically as well as socially far behind before we can realistically think of it. Today, to get a single vote from each citizen in the nationwide Lok Sabha polls is such a mammoth exercise fraught with so many challenges, that to even consider participatory government where citizens vote for each legislative bill is, IMHO, naive and too far-fetched. I am also not sure if this kind of egalitarianism can work for a country where a significant proportion of the population is illiterate, below the poverty line, and has no awareness or education about what most of the legislative bills mean. Aybuk: thanks for visiting! I was unable to comment on your post in detail on your blog, as it says that comments are disabled by a blog administrator.

There are many things you say that I agree with, but also several that I disagree with. Your idea is a noble one. It may be termed as a ‘real-time democracy’. But I think we’re technologically as well as socially far behind before we can realistically think of it. Today, to get a single vote from each citizen in the nationwide Lok Sabha polls is such a mammoth exercise fraught with so many challenges, that to even consider participatory government where citizens vote for each legislative bill is, IMHO, naive and too far-fetched.

I am also not sure if this kind of egalitarianism can work for a country where a significant proportion of the population is illiterate, below the poverty line, and has no awareness or education about what most of the legislative bills mean.

]]> By: mahendrap http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-904 mahendrap Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:58:04 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-904 Aybuk: thanks for visiting! I was unable to comment on your post in detail on your blog, as it says that comments are disabled by a blog administrator. There are many things you say that I agree with, but also several that I disagree with. Your idea is a noble one. It may be termed as a 'real-time democracy'. But I think we're technologically as well as socially far behind before we can realistically think of it. Today, to get a single vote from each citizen in the nationwide Lok Sabha polls is such a mammoth exercise fraught with so many challenges, that to even consider participatory government where citizens vote for each legislative bill is, IMHO, naive and too far-fetched. I am also not sure if this kind of egalitarianism can work for a country where a significant proportion of the population is illiterate, below the poverty line, and has no awareness or education about what most of the legislative bills mean. Aybuk: thanks for visiting! I was unable to comment on your post in detail on your blog, as it says that comments are disabled by a blog administrator.

There are many things you say that I agree with, but also several that I disagree with. Your idea is a noble one. It may be termed as a ‘real-time democracy’. But I think we’re technologically as well as socially far behind before we can realistically think of it. Today, to get a single vote from each citizen in the nationwide Lok Sabha polls is such a mammoth exercise fraught with so many challenges, that to even consider participatory government where citizens vote for each legislative bill is, IMHO, naive and too far-fetched.

I am also not sure if this kind of egalitarianism can work for a country where a significant proportion of the population is illiterate, below the poverty line, and has no awareness or education about what most of the legislative bills mean.

]]> By: Flyin' on a wing an' a prayer http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-909 Flyin' on a wing an' a prayer Thu, 30 Aug 2007 15:01:29 +0000 http://skeptic.skepticgeek.com/2007/08/30/123-trilogy-part-3/#comment-909 <strong>Enough of representative government, I want a participatory government</strong> I remember a time, when I was taught political science, I was told that a participatory form of government is not realistic because no one would be able to come together and create decisions together ... Enough of representative government, I want a participatory government

I remember a time, when I was taught political science, I was told that a participatory form of government is not realistic because no one would be able to come together and create decisions together …

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